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Post by Feederpark on Mar 21, 2012 17:52:25 GMT
Orrrr just make one album, and make it 14 tracks long? Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten this option...
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Post by nancepants on Mar 21, 2012 21:37:47 GMT
Oof. They're consistently finding new ways to irritate and alienate dedicated fans! YES. This. For the past three/four albums they've seemed pretty shambolic in terms of strategy for sales and engaging fans (positively). Now they just seem like a complete joke. The words "organise", "piss up" and "brewery" come to mind. One day maybe they will hire someone who actually has a clue about this sort of stuff.
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Post by Space Age Hero on Mar 22, 2012 0:04:20 GMT
Feeder's record buying fanbase is pretty much down to the hardcore anyway (<10,000) so they should quit with the gimmicks which may be appropriate for more popular bands (iTunes exclusives etc) and focus on satisfying the hardcore.
I see the overpriced vinyls released through the Renegades era with no new material (how many people got excited when they were announced but still begrudgingly bought them for collecting purposes?) and it frustrates me because with a little effort Feeder could do so much more. The test pressing vinyls as well seem to be a regular occurrence, which to me seems like a cheap move for a quick buck (I see no glamour in buying test pressings for non significant releases personally). People may buy them- but it doesn't mean they should be released. Instead with a little effort Feeder could release DVDs, limited EPs with archive material, packaging with detailed liner notes etc- give the fans what they actually want rather than give the fans stuff they don't want but will buy for the collection. You see other independent artists with their bandcamp/pledgemusic sites etc and Feeder could do so much more to engage with the core fanbase (and Feeder have at least 4x the back catalogue of most other bands). And most likely make more money.
I didn't buy the Borders single (didn't really like the single but the lack of d/l codes killed it for me). I've yet to order the album and these variations and staggered anouncements aren't helping.
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Post by edisonsexybeast on Mar 22, 2012 2:03:28 GMT
well.. im pretty sure feeder know what theyre doing.. i mean.. theyve been at this for 20+ years..
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Post by xuenilom on Mar 22, 2012 8:18:42 GMT
well.. im pretty sure feeder know what theyre doing.. i mean.. theyve been at this for 20+ years.. Just because Feeder have been making music for 20 years doesn't necessary mean they have the right people managing them recently. I agree with the sentiments echoed previously in this thread. This campaign has just been 'Make it up as we go along..' There has obviously been no plan from the start. 1. Album release date delayed (With no explanation) 2. 'Generation Freakshow' Single promos released to the media & announced on Radio & the Internet as the next single only to be shelved (With no explanation) 3. Momentum lost from 'Borders' (Album should have come out a week after Borders IMHO) 4. Pre-order farce with iTunes, Recordstore & now through Feederweb. All offering exclusive content which means buying 3 different formats of the album along with a gig ticket, if you wanted to get all the content. (I'll be buying my ticket from the Venue, £20 instead of probably nearer £30 from Sandbag) Wouldn't have been so bad if we were told this from day 1 so an informed decision could be made. This isn't a rant against Feeder or Grant it's more to do with how it's managed. It seems like the mistakes made in previous campaigns have not been learnt from.
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 22, 2012 9:13:32 GMT
Instead with a little effort Feeder could release DVDs, limited EPs with archive material, packaging with detailed liner notes etc- give the fans what they actually want rather than give the fans stuff they don't want but will buy for the collection. You see other independent artists with their bandcamp/pledgemusic sites etc and Feeder could do so much more to engage with the core fanbase (and Feeder have at least 4x the back catalogue of most other bands). And most likely make more money. Whilst this is a wonderful idea and one tha I'd fully support, the issue here may be over ownership of the songs form the Echo era. Maybe Chrysalis, who i assume retain ownership, don't want to or don't have the resources to try and exploit the back catalogue? I also think we have to remember that G likes to focus on the here and now, not what has come in the past. Just because Feeder have been making music for 20 years doesn't necessary mean they have the right people managing them recently. I agree with the sentiments echoed previously in this thread. This campaign has just been 'Make it up as we go along..' There has obviously been no plan from the start. 1. Album release date delayed (With no explanation) 2. 'Generation Freakshow' Single promos released to the media & announced on Radio & the Internet as the next single only to be shelved (With no explanation) To be fair, they don't have to give an explanation to us ... These are internal decisions. It's most likely the album was delayed due to delays in deliverables and/or simple timing vs other releases and planned tour dates. The single was most likely delayed because the take up via radio was poor. I think the main issue is that they are not considering their customers ... i.e. the fans. Sure, it's true that they can't please everyone all of the time, but it think they are approaching this from the wrong angle and in the process, annoying the fan base. Let's not forget they have made strides to improve in this campaign ... Getting the band to use Facebook and twitter has been good and something that they should've been doing for years. With feedback, hopefully they will learn and do things diffently, although I think we have to remember that Borders was a sales success for them, since it sold out. So maybe they don't see it as quite a flawed as we do ... In fact they could've had many more sales had their been a download too and the buying options were not limited to the stock produced.
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Post by Sonorous (ex-feedermadness) on Mar 22, 2012 11:49:23 GMT
well.. im pretty sure feeder know what theyre doing.. i mean.. theyve been at this for 20+ years.. Just because Feeder have been making music for 20 years doesn't necessary mean they have the right people managing them recently. I agree with the sentiments echoed previously in this thread. This campaign has just been 'Make it up as we go along..' There has obviously been no plan from the start. 1. Album release date delayed (With no explanation) 2. 'Generation Freakshow' Single promos released to the media & announced on Radio & the Internet as the next single only to be shelved (With no explanation) 3. Momentum lost from 'Borders' (Album should have come out a week after Borders IMHO) 4. Pre-order farce with iTunes, Recordstore & now through Feederweb. All offering exclusive content which means buying 3 different formats of the album along with a gig ticket, if you wanted to get all the content. (I'll be buying my ticket from the Venue, £20 instead of probably nearer £30 from Sandbag) Wouldn't have been so bad if we were told this from day 1 so an informed decision could be made. This isn't a rant against Feeder or Grant it's more to do with how it's managed. It seems like the mistakes made in previous campaigns have not been learnt from. Agreed on every single point. Extra songs should all be available at once like in the past, for example on an EP or Japanese edition of the album. Also, let me say this, the friggin iTunes thing is fairly annoying. I believe everything that has to do with Apple is shit, but iTunes is really the worst part of that shit. Why not allowing fans to download Miles away without needing to buy the whole album AGAIN and making it available also on other music downloading sites? Also why not making it available to foreign fans as well? I mean, many people will have pre ordered physical copies and won't buy it again for just one song, plus many foreign fans like me have no incentive to buy it again either, because we wouldn't even get the extra song but we would only get the same exact album as the physical copy we have already bought. If they considered these little facts, their sales would be much higher. I hope they make up for it with an EP (not a digital EP, a*proper* physical EP, with CD, artwork, booklet and the likes!) containing all the extra tracks released in this campaign, in particular the Borders b-sides.
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Post by Stu on Mar 22, 2012 11:55:03 GMT
I also think we have to remember that G likes to focus on the here and now, not what has come in the past. He doesn't seem to have a problem trotting out Just the Way I'm Feeling on all the radio shows though!
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 22, 2012 12:03:59 GMT
Agreed on every single point. Extra songs should all be available at once like in the past, for example on an EP or Japanese edition of the album. Not sure that has ever happened ... I don't understand this? What is wrong with Apple and iTunes?! Feeder are not the first to do this ... it's a music industry trend. I'm not so bothered about this, IF the deal is worth it. One extra track does not make good value, though. So, in this case, whilst I have ordered it, it's not a great deal, even at £7.99. I've raised this with them, but I think we have to consider that there'll be different deals in different countries. However, it's a fact of life that bands will do things in their own countries that aren't available elsewhere. It's an unfortunate circumstance of liking a band from another country that hasn't made global status yet. I'd rather see them make another b-sides catch all album ... POPY only had half the story.
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 22, 2012 12:05:10 GMT
He doesn't seem to have a problem trotting out Just the Way I'm Feeling on all the radio shows though! hah, yeah ... there are certain exceptions to my statement and those being their "classic" songs. But I think that's ok ... it's what the masses want. I think we have to remember here that fans that write on a forum are a little special and often our desires are somewhat more extreme that your average fan. It was revealing on the gig ticket announcement that most people were saying "come play in my town!" or "why not play where I live?". The only people to whinge about the extra track were the forumites or collectors out there. Same observation with the vox pops before the Koko gig. Most people, when asked for 1 track the bands could play, went for something extremely obvious like Buck or JAD or JTWIF.
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Post by Stu on Mar 22, 2012 14:31:35 GMT
The only people to whinge about the extra track were the forumites or collectors out there. This is the perverse thing about it. Most of the people on here are collectors to some degree, and we all know that we're spending on average a lot more than other fans in order to keep our collections as complete as possible. I don't have a problem with this, and I certainly didn't bat an eyelid before ordering, for example, Seven Sleepers. I also accept that the norm is to have multiple editions of an album, whether that be across digital platforms or whatever. There are definitely other bands where I've had to 'double dip' in order to get all the tracks that accompanied a release. The issue with GF so far is that there have now been three staggered announcements encouraging fans to pre-order the album, each with new incentives. Of the people who originally pre-ordered the album after the first announcement, how many of them would have done so if they had had the option of getting an additional track from a different outlet? And what about the people who can't make it to any of the gigs? Are they supposed to buy a ticket and another copy of the album if it's the only way to get another new song? That's crossing the line from incentive into holding material for ransom! If they want to provide an incentive just do the same thing they did with iTunes and Tiny Minds by providing another album track early. They can still slap the word 'exclusive' on it if they feel that's helping shift some more units... I know this is re-iterating a lot of what's been discussed already, but quite frankly it's getting ridiculous. I'm starting to regret ever pre-ordering the album in the first place - might as well wait a few months and get it for £3 in a Tesco clearance bin like Silent Cry! PS. Before anyone takes umbridge with that last jab, it was an exaggeration for comedic effect. Thank you.
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Post by Ben on Mar 22, 2012 15:54:48 GMT
One day maybe they will hire someone who actually has a clue about this sort of stuff. And on that day, I'll possibly start giving half as much of a toss as I used to. I'm really disheartened with a load of the stuff that's been going on with all of this. It seems like they've been SO close to hitting the mark for the past 3 campaigns, only to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Whilst the Silent Cry situation was totally out of their hands, the last couple have been a bit of a cluster-fruitcake. The Renegades side-project could have been consistently brilliant, but after those initial (and amazing) gigs, it became a bit of a confused mess. As for this campaign, it's gone down a horrible path akin to (as mentioned earlier) the horrible 'retailer exclusive preorder bonus' structure that games find themselves in now. Whilst I do appreciate Fweb's people popping on here and notifying us of bits every now and then, it seems that it's *ALWAYS* a secondary notification via email etc. Whilst I know we're going to be the group who pick up on news before most, it's just a bit frustrating and unclear. From a purely selfish point, I'm pissed off with the scenario revolving around the Miss You video competition. Nothing's been said officially regarding it, I've had to get word of what's going on (ie: nothing) through Pete, who was also in the group of people who won. 4 years is an utter piss take, and to have watched other people win competitions in the meantime where signed guitars, albums and all the rest of it have gone out (for stuff as easy as "Click here!" or "Take a photo!" really, *REALLY* stings. I've not seen Feeder live since the Leadmill in 2010. I skipped the "full" Renegades tour, and at the time I wasn't too bothered. Felt a little pang of "Ah, maybe I should've gone" whilst reading the threads about the tour, but I haven't felt like that at all with the shows thus far for GF. Turned down the chance to buy one of the recent test pressings, and have only ordered other bits through force of habit more than anything else. I put something on Facebook recently about how much the band have meant to me over the past 13 years or so that I've been following them. It's really saddening to me that I've now gotten to the point where I don't care anywhere near as much as I used to, and I just can't find the enthusiasm to get back to following them around. I've met so many people I'm proud to call my friends through this band, and I wouldn't be with Rach, nor would I be the person I am today, if it weren't for Feeder. I can't say I'm done with the band, as I don't think I ever will be, but I don't care anywhere near as much as I did a few years ago. Sorry, that devolved into a bit of a rant! I hate all of this mis-management and other bullshit associated with them, Grant still appears to be writing good songs, but it's becoming increasingly futile if they're going to keep pissing fans off like they are doing.
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Post by waiting-for-changes on Mar 22, 2012 17:48:21 GMT
Hello,
Long-time fan, short-time lurker, first-time poster. I just wanted to chime in on the discussion, because a lot of what's being said resonates with me.
The first Feeder song I heard was 'Yesterday Went Too Soon'. On the strength of that, I went with a friend to see the band at Brixton Academy in 1999 and I've been a fan ever since.
I'm pretty bummed about the band's direction in recent years, particularly the Renegades side project. The days of physical releases are long behind us now, and with them the days when a single would have three or four separate, original tracks. It used to be that a band recorded 20 songs, sequenced an album and used the rest as b-sides. Renegades felt to me as though Feeder took the 8 that wouldn't stand up to an album and found a way to monetize them. That said, the Renegades side project tracks were the heavier tracks that fashion has moved on from, so maybe it made sense to do them on the side. So I was pretty fuming when the Renegades tracks ended up on the album anyway. I felt I had bought everything twice.
Jump forward to Generation Freakshow. I saw the show at Koko because 'fuck it, why not', frankly. I don't keep up with guitar music anymore (or really any type of music that goes verse-chorus-verse-chorus-middle-chorus-chorus) but my memories of Feeder are sentimental and glowey enough that I'll listen to everything they put out, at least once.
I liked what I heard at Koko, more in fact than any set of songs I've heard from the band in a long time. I was excited about the album. Then it got delayed and with that delay any momentum they built with 'Borders'. Then the choice of single changed. It's frustrating. I want them to do well but they keep making it hard to get excited.
I think this is the last shot for the band, which is not to say that I'm pessimistic about how it's going to turn out -- in fact, I've bought tickets to the Brixton Academy show in November -- but Grant has been open about recent sales, 'Side by Side' barely troubled the Top 100, and the band finished a version of the album over a year ago before being they decided to re-think things. I felt a bit sad hearing Grant talk at Koko about 'the good old days' before playing 'Idaho' and how he wanted to go back to that time.
I dunno... I think they will attack Generation Freakshow hard and I wish them all the luck in the world, I really do. But I feel bittersweet about it all.
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Post by TheAlex Equivalent Battenberg on Mar 22, 2012 19:23:38 GMT
I agree that things have been messy in recent years but to do what Feeder are doing at the moment with Grant to an extent overseeing a small team of people to run a record label and band, while also having a young family, is immensely difficult. Grant didn't want to be a singer when he started, never mind the head of a record label!
I really hope they sort out issues with prizes and learn from the mistakes of this campaign, time will tell. Many of us here are fanatical about the band, rave about them to friends, family and acquaintances etc. but why would we carry on doing that when some of us have been let down in such a huge manner? You could say we're Feeder's most important fans (to keep them in a job) and the disappointment for me comes from the seeming lack of effort and desire to keep us as fans.
And another thing, despite these releases all over the place, it's now EASIER THAN EVER to get hold of music, especially from bands not of your native country.
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starfish
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Post by starfish on Mar 22, 2012 19:25:01 GMT
Wow, lots of negativity here, some of it probably justified, I guess. But I think it’s only fair that someone play devil’s advocate and argue the case from Feeder’s own point of view.
What’s the thing we all want from Feeder, other than great music and great shows? We want their music to be a success, and to perform well. We all loved it when, despite being on a tiny label, ‘Renegades’ entered higher in the charts than Nadine Coyle’s megabucks solo album.
Like it or not, Feeder aren’t the stadium-filling beast they used to be, and are now operating on a distinctly lower tier. ‘Borders’ charting in the fifties was a success under these circumstances.
As such, Feeder are trying to sell as many copies of their songs as possible, squeezing everything they can from the campaign. You can’t blame them – they are on a small label, after all.
They need to give people an incentive to buy as many formats of their singles and albums as humanly possible, and one way of doing that is via signings, or exclusive tracks.
Here’s the thing: even if Feeder have got some plan in the pipeline to release all these exclusive songs on some sort of EP or download in the future, the worst thing they could do is make their plan public.
I bet there are fans out there who have pre-ordered the album four times now (signed, iTunes, Japanese and now the new ‘No Light’ bundle. These same fans would have little incentive to buy these multiple copies if they knew in advance that everything was going to be made available further down the line.
Yeah, some people may grumble about it on a forum, but if it gives the band some extra sales, gives the chart position a push, puts the album higher on the shelves in the local Tesco, and a bit of extra visibility, then surely the benefits outweigh the negatives?
Nobody’s being forced to buy anything – if you don’t like the marketing strategy, then vote with your wallets and refuse to buy the various versions; if enough people do this then perhaps it’ll make the band think twice about doing the same thing again.
But while people are buying multiple copies of the same album, and the strategy becomes a proven winner, they have no disincentive to stop with the current marketing tactic.
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Post by Ben on Mar 22, 2012 19:35:03 GMT
Nobody’s being forced to buy anything – if you don’t like the marketing strategy, then vote with your wallets and refuse to buy the various versions; if enough people do this then perhaps it’ll make the band think twice about doing the same thing again. Done. As for not being forced, Feeder *KNOW* they have an incredibly loyal hardcore fan base. They know that there will be a number of us that'll buy whatever, and I think (at least for a few of us) that this is a step too far.
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Post by Stu on Mar 22, 2012 20:10:21 GMT
As such, Feeder are trying to sell as many copies of their songs as possible, squeezing everything they can from the campaign. You can’t blame them – they are on a small label, after all. They need to give people an incentive to buy as many formats of their singles and albums as humanly possible, and one way of doing that is via signings, or exclusive tracks. Here’s the thing: even if Feeder have got some plan in the pipeline to release all these exclusive songs on some sort of EP or download in the future, the worst thing they could do is make their plan public. I bet there are fans out there who have pre-ordered the album four times now (signed, iTunes, Japanese and now the new ‘No Light’ bundle. These same fans would have little incentive to buy these multiple copies if they knew in advance that everything was going to be made available further down the line. Yeah, some people may grumble about it on a forum, but if it gives the band some extra sales, gives the chart position a push, puts the album higher on the shelves in the local Tesco, and a bit of extra visibility, then surely the benefits outweigh the negatives? There are several problems with this: 1. If, as you're suggesting, the strategy of releasing pre-order incentives one by one to induce die hard fans to buy multiple copies of the album is intentional, then that's pretty deplorable. I'm not saying we know this is the case, but if it is it's completely unethical. 2. The number of people dedicated enough to buy multiple copies of the album will be absolutely tiny compared to the quantities required to influence chart position. 3. This isn't just about having to re-buy albums, this is about having to buy an unusable gig ticket to get access to a song. 4. "They need to give people an incentive to buy as many formats of their singles and albums as humanly possible" - one of the ways to achieve this is to actually make the stuff available and accessible. So they sold out of all the Borders singles? They could still be selling this material if it was available digitally. 5. Increasing sales through double-dipping from your existing fanbase is not a good long term strategy! They need to be doing things to increase that fanbase, not milk the existing one dry. And I know you mentioned voting with your wallets by not buying multiple copies, which is exactly what I'll be doing, but we shouldn't be being put in this position to begin with. Why would a band want to do something to alienate their most dedicated fans? Dedicated fans are the ones most likely to be out there spreading the word and creating new fans! Anyone else getting fed up of typing up diatribes yet?
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 22, 2012 23:39:45 GMT
Here’s the thing: even if Feeder have got some plan in the pipeline to release all these exclusive songs on some sort of EP or download in the future, the worst thing they could do is make their plan public. Agreed, but I don't think we are asking to know all their plans. It seems that the strategy here is not thought out long term. Like one small decision to the next being made without considering the bigger picture. A coherent long term plan, with scheduled release dates of into could be made at the start and if thought through properly could be designed to ensure no issues arise. I have no issue with them trying to maximise their revenue streams, but to get every song from this campaign, you're looking a spending the best part of £70 (for the borders singles, iTunes bonus track, gig ticket to get "No Light" and COTS single to get that bside and including an original album per order). That's quite a lot to expect the average fan to shell out. It also doesn't cater for any fan that wants the songs but can't go to the gigs for whatever reason. Had they thought about a total release strategy this could've been avoided and they'd likely have generated the same if not more income. Does anyone know the comparative profit margins on selling a track via download vs a physical release? Surely its comparable if not in the favour of downloads? Especially if some people buy both physical and digital releases as we know some would. What's also evidently clear from the posts on my Facebook page, is that these various releases are confusing people. Someone posted today that I should just cancel my iTunes per order if I was annoyed. They had no idea that the iTunes version had another bonus exclusive track!
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Post by 20th Century Renegade on Mar 22, 2012 23:58:18 GMT
*ahem* if I may just chip in here I would just like to say that I agree with the thing about them doing it to get maybe better sales or a higher chart position, because they really deserve it what with all the effing great stuff they have made in the past, but I also agree with what is being said about it getting a bit out of hand now, I for one will be buying one copy of GF, just like all the other Feeder albums I have I think it's a shame that they are feeling the need to do this
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starfish
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Post by starfish on Mar 23, 2012 0:14:54 GMT
To be fair, I broadly agree with you; I was just trying to present an alternative view to all the negativity. However... If, as you're suggesting, the strategy of releasing pre-order incentives one by one to induce die hard fans to buy multiple copies of the album is intentional, then that's pretty deplorable. I'm not saying we know this is the case, but if it is it's completely unethical. I dunno, I think deplorable and unethical are very strong words. How is it any different from the currently voguish practice of re-releasing a relatively-recent album with bonus tracks? A mate of mine is a big Florence & the Machine fan and had to buy four different versions of the 'Lungs' album to get all the available tracks! Take That, Ellie Goulding, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, they're all doing it - bringing out albums and then re-releasing them a few months later with exclusive extra content. Or how about movies released on DVD or Blu-ray, only to be re-issued months later with extra scenes and bonus features (e.g. Casino Royale, Avatar)? And you think paying for a gig ticket in order to get an exclusive track is bad enough, have a heart for collectors of Transformers action figures, who had to buy a Japanese Toshiba Vardia HD-DVD player costing £600 in order to get an exclusive pink repaint of Starscream! I'm not saying that the practice is morally whiter-than-white... but, as consumers, we should be savvy enough these days to realise that sometimes it pays to wait before splashing out on something new. I remember, as a spotty teenager in the 1990s, begrudging having to pay £11 for 'Polythene' again just for the sake of a slightly different version of 'Polythene Girl'. Times haven't changed!
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