Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2012 15:19:28 GMT
I've never understood music reviews.
What qualifies the opinion of one person to be 'trusted' and representative of a whole magazine/website. Music is one of the most subjective forms of art, you cant be told if something is 'good' or not.
And who actually bases what music they buy on reviews anyway? How hard is it to search for the latest single on youtube or spotify and decide for yourself if you like it or not? If anything User reviews on Amazon are far more helpful as they are likely to be written by people who know the band and who can compare it to other albums properly.
It baffles me
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thefeederfish
Yesterday Went Too Soon
He's got a brand new car, looks like a Ford Fiesta...
Posts: 652
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Post by thefeederfish on Mar 25, 2012 15:23:34 GMT
I've never understood music reviews. What qualifies the opinion of one person to be 'trusted' and representative of a whole magazine/website. Music is one of the most subjective forms of art, you cant be told if something is 'good' or not. And who actually bases what music they buy on reviews anyway? How hard is it to search for the latest single on youtube or spotify and decide for yourself if you like it or not? If anything User reviews on Amazon are far more helpful as they are likely to be written by people who know the band and who can compare it to other albums properly. It baffles me Spot on.
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starfish
Swim
[Xb0:staRFish232]
Posts: 164
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Post by starfish on Mar 25, 2012 15:43:29 GMT
I've never understood music reviews. What qualifies the opinion of one person to be 'trusted' and representative of a whole magazine/website. Music is one of the most subjective forms of art, you cant be told if something is 'good' or not. All forms of art are equally subjective. Music is no different from reviewing a film, a videogame, a book, anything. As a regular reader of music magazines myself, I have learnt over the years to trust a small number of individual reviewers whose tastes and preferences in music are more-or-less equivalent to my own. In the case of such writers, I have on occasion bought albums solely on the strength on a five-star review, and have seldom been disappointed. However, I have been reading music magazines for years, and it takes many years for an individual reviewer to earn my trust. But once earnt, I value that trust. If anything User reviews on Amazon are far more helpful as they are likely to be written by people who know the band and who can compare it to other albums properly. Reviews by pre-existing fans of a band are to be taken no more seriously than any other reviewer, in my experience. Firstly, such reviews tend to be biased in favour of the band in question - I'd much rather trust a positive review by a neutral observer, than a positive review by a pre-existing fan. Furthermore, even in Feeder fandom we find it difficult to agree on what makes a good Feeder album. Depending on who you speak to on these forums, the Renegades album was either one of Feeder's very best, or one of their very worst. I'm a Feeder fan myself, and if asked to write a review about 'Silent Cry', I'd be quite scathing and give it a poor mark. Would you trust that over the view of a neutral observer who liked the album? What I'm trying to say is this: all reviews are equally valid. Fair enough, in one reviewer's honest opinion, Feeder haven't ever bettered 'Buck Rogers'. Just because you might not agree with an opinion, it doesn't necessarily make it a bad one! PS: Magazines have lots of people on their reviewing staff. Just because one reviewer at Q Magazine liked 'Pushing the Senses' and another reviewer thinks that Feeder peaked with 'Buck Rogers', it doesn't mean that they are 'contradicting themselves', it just means that there is a variety of opinion amongst their writers, which can only be a good thing, surely?
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Post by Ben on Mar 25, 2012 16:29:23 GMT
But they won't. They've not learned anything from previous mistakes, why would they start now? I remain hopeful ... it depends how much they want to listen to their customers!! Hmmmm... Sad to say I've lost that faith now I think. They've had so many opportunities through the more recent stage of their career, but the ball has been dropped every single time. Whilst not necessarily the band's fault, they've drastically needed to get some change in the management since the PTS campaign... As much as you try your hardest to get info etc for a lot of us Pete, the impression I get is that your head is being repeatedly knocked against a brick wall. I still haven't heard the vinyl/tape B Sides from Borders yet, and I can't be arsed to go through the rigmarole of ripping them to digital. If they were on iTunes, they'd have an extra couple of quid from me. But then, what do I know?
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 25, 2012 18:52:43 GMT
I remain hopeful ... it depends how much they want to listen to their customers!! Hmmmm... Sad to say I've lost that faith now I think. They've had so many opportunities through the more recent stage of their career, but the ball has been dropped every single time. Whilst not necessarily the band's fault, they've drastically needed to get some change in the management since the PTS campaign... As much as you try your hardest to get info etc for a lot of us Pete, the impression I get is that your head is being repeatedly knocked against a brick wall. I still haven't heard the vinyl/tape B Sides from Borders yet, and I can't be arsed to go through the rigmarole of ripping them to digital. If they were on iTunes, they'd have an extra couple of quid from me. But then, what do I know? I understand where you are coming from, although I do think your opinion is slightly tarnished as a result of the Miss You debacle (although in effect that is a prize offered by a defunct company and is similar to buying something from a company tha goes bust .. Often you basically get nothing as we've done). Tha aside, I think we should give the management some credit. They have done some good, they are still providing a basis for making new music, they're just making some misguided decisions on how to get that to us. That can be changed and I remain hopeful it will. All they need is an external, customer focused view and I've offered to give that, repeating that offer recently ... We will see i guess. We should remember that it's not a big team of people ... Its like 2 at most, as full time equivalents. In all honesty, I think they just need to marry the latest norms of release strategy with the more retro strategy that they seem to be adopting only. Would we really be so up in arms if we could get tracks digitally as well as on physical formats? Would we care that we have to order multiple versions of the album if we knew up front and weren't limited to buying a gig ticket in addition? I don't think so ... This means they're close, but not quite close enough ... So a small change will fix this.
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Post by [Ghost] on Mar 25, 2012 19:42:47 GMT
I think the biggest problem that a lot of 'hardcore' Feeder fans have, and I'm speaking for myself and maybe others on here, is that after investing years of cash, time and loyalty in collecting releases, going to multiple gigs etc, it seems the band are willing to disregard all that in favour of cynical marketing ploys with the aim of getting more money.
There are so many artists/bands out there at the moment so much more bang up with the times- satisfying collectors and the hardcore, but not alienating those that just want all the tracks from a campaign. It is frustrating, and I don't know if I'm alone here, but I certainly give many other artists/bands attention they deserve over Feeder nowadays for this reason.
Also, I would even go as far as to say I am 50/50 whether I even think they want to learn from past mistakes.
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Post by fitfornothing on Mar 26, 2012 9:02:54 GMT
After reading the DIY review I also read the review of the Koko gig earlier this year. And for me it seems like these guys don't really remember what they wrote that night After the gig: "Yes, ladies and gents, the Welsh rockers may have been away from the music scene for a while, but they are back, with a new drummer and an album of songs that make us old school fans fall in love with them all over again." Was that the review where they told us about "new drummer Steve". Clearly these people know what they are talking about...
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Post by Ben on Mar 26, 2012 11:55:45 GMT
I understand where you are coming from, although I do think your opinion is slightly tarnished as a result of the Miss You debacle Admittedly so (to an extent), and without meaning it to sound harsh, it's easier for you to accept the outcome given the position you're in. It was the perceived attitude that got to me more than anything else, if I'm honest. Tha aside, I think we should give the management some credit. They have done some good, they are still providing a basis for making new music, they're just making some misguided decisions on how to get that to us. That can be changed and I remain hopeful it will. All they need is an external, customer focused view and I've offered to give that, repeating that offer recently ... We will see i guess. We should remember that it's not a big team of people ... Its like 2 at most, as full time equivalents. In all honesty, I think they just need to marry the latest norms of release strategy with the more retro strategy that they seem to be adopting only. Would we really be so up in arms if we could get tracks digitally as well as on physical formats? Would we care that we have to order multiple versions of the album if we knew up front and weren't limited to buying a gig ticket in addition? I don't think so ... This means they're close, but not quite close enough ... So a small change will fix this. Not denying they've done some things right, got some key big decisions wrong. . I appreciate that it's a small team, but that's where the likes of the Street Team came in before. A group of fans getting the word out & being kept in the loop. I'm sure people would be willing to help out again if something like that came about. I think the biggest problem that a lot of 'hardcore' Feeder fans have, and I'm speaking for myself and maybe others on here, is that after investing years of cash, time and loyalty in collecting releases, going to multiple gigs etc, it seems the band are willing to disregard all that in favour of cynical marketing ploys with the aim of getting more money. There are so many artists/bands out there at the moment so much more bang up with the times- satisfying collectors and the hardcore, but not alienating those that just want all the tracks from a campaign. It is frustrating, and I don't know if I'm alone here, but I certainly give many other artists/bands attention they deserve over Feeder nowadays for this reason. Also, I would even go as far as to say I am 50/50 whether I even think they want to learn from past mistakes. This. There were times when I was at uni that I went without an awful lot so I could get my hands on some Feeder stuff, and travelled the length & bredth of the country to see them live. Now, I can't be bothered to travel to the next county to see them, and couldn't really care less about picking up promos etc. Hell, even the Borders single was a last minute jobbie.
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DanBoden39
Forum noob
My Perfect Day, Don't Fade Away
Posts: 86
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Post by DanBoden39 on Mar 26, 2012 12:35:45 GMT
After reading all these posts over the last week or so, about how people are annoyed at having to buy two pre-orders or 3 just to get hands on extra tracks. Myself, I would love to also get hold of these tracks but if I can't its not the end of the world. They are obviously B-Side standard tracks otherwise they'd have been saved for the next album or on this one.
I also have a feeling like someone else previously said that because everyone can't get hold of them now, that they will be B-Sides to the albums following singles.
But amongst this mass of negativity, a month a go everyone was on this message board posting how they were buzzing for the new album and April couldn't come quicker. We seemed to have lost this postivity over recent weeks and people seem to be dissapointed before the records been released.
So please it would be nice to see everyone looking forward to the new campaign even if they are a bit 'p*ssed off' about not being able to get the bonus tracks!
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Post by [Ghost] on Mar 26, 2012 14:06:33 GMT
After reading all these posts over the last week or so, about how people are annoyed at having to buy two pre-orders or 3 just to get hands on extra tracks. Myself, I would love to also get hold of these tracks but if I can't its not the end of the world. They are obviously B-Side standard tracks otherwise they'd have been saved for the next album or on this one. It's not the end of the world but its very dissapointing in the modern age when you have previously gone to great lengths to acquire every song in their back catalogue. Not to mention it feels like a kick in the teeth. As for them being 'obviously B-Side standard tracks', that is nonsense as far as Feeder are concerned as some of their B-Sides far outshine their album tracks (Just a Day, Slowburn, Emily, Feel It Again, Shatter to name a very quick few). B-Sides to the albums following singles...I have no idea what you are talking about . Do you mean a re-release album with the all the songs on? If so, I very, very much doubt they'd bother to do that. And if they did it would be an even bigger kick in the teeth to those that have bought the album 3 times for all the tracks. I am afraid it isn't that simple. I am looking forward to the album a lot, as I like what I have heard so far. Any loss in positivety is purely the fault of the band, so for that I have no sympathy. There is dissapointment certainly in the band/management in their actions, but don't have any dissapointment in the songs themselves so far.
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Post by Potroque on Mar 26, 2012 15:26:11 GMT
B-Sides to the albums following singles...I have no idea what you are talking about . Do you mean a re-release album with the all the songs on? If so, I very, very much doubt they'd bother to do that. And if they did it would be an even bigger kick in the teeth to those that have bought the album 3 times for all the tracks. I think he just means they will be B-sides to future singles...
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 26, 2012 19:24:21 GMT
Admittedly so (to an extent), and without meaning it to sound harsh, it's easier for you to accept the outcome given the position you're in. It was the perceived attitude that got to me more than anything else, if I'm honest. Not sure what you're referring to here? I don't get any special treatment or freebies. I'm just as annoyed at not getting a prize as offered, but I'm more philosophical I guess ... The company that offered the prize doesn't exist any more. I'm not sure a street team would help much these days ... Time have changed. To be fair to the band and FeederHQ though, you did all this off your own back. They don't owe you anything. If you've decided to not buy stuff or travel then again thats your choice. Again, I'm not defending their actions because I think they've got a lot wrong, this time around. As for releasing the exclusives as UK b sides, they better not in my opinion, because then the people that have paid extra to get them will be truly shafted!!
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Post by TheAlex Equivalent Battenberg on Mar 26, 2012 20:13:05 GMT
What I'm trying to say is this: all reviews are equally valid. Fair enough, in one reviewer's honest opinion, Feeder haven't ever bettered 'Buck Rogers'. I wouldn't even agree with that; often journalists and media outlets have their own agenda and won't actually review something honestly. Sometimes the journalist isn't even allowed to write their own opinion - the magazine editor will say to them "give that a bad review" (or vice-versa) and they have to, if they want to remain in a job that is... Important employees of various publications and radio stations are wined and dined and given executive boxes at football matches, and so on by record companies, to gain favour. It probably doesn't happen as much as it used to, with there being less money floating around in the music industry, but it does still happen. There are some people who hate Feeder just because they've had a couple of successful singles that they got fed up of hearing on the radio, so they'll judge everything else they release based on that. I know I think Wheatus are crap because I hated Teenage Dirtbag.
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Post by Ben on Mar 26, 2012 21:03:52 GMT
Not sure what you're referring to here? I don't get any special treatment or freebies. I'm just as annoyed at not getting a prize as offered, but I'm more philosophical I guess ... The company that offered the prize doesn't exist any more. Don't take it the wrong way, but you've got more ties than most on here! It's just a bit of a kick in the balls really, as I said elsewhere, it just smarts that people have "successfully" won competitions that were just "take a photo!". Wouldn't take much for them to provide *something*, even if it's not the video thing... (let's face it, a Feeder video isn't the event it once was to all of us!) I'm not sure a street team would help much these days ... Time have changed. They could do with something though... I'm sure there's people on here that'd be willing to help out with a few bits. To be fair to the band and FeederHQ though, you did all this off your own back. They don't owe you anything. If you've decided to not buy stuff or travel then again thats your choice. Not denying that, and I know they don't owe me anything for all of it (never said they did, outside of the competition thing). I was merely saying that a lot of the passion and support I was ready to give to the band has gone. Don't regret any of the stuff I did to see/support the band in the past, but all I'm saying is they've not endeared themselves to me with this latest load of stuff!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2012 21:11:57 GMT
Seems we could all do with a bit of a laugh!
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Post by unfinisheddrawings on Mar 26, 2012 22:32:03 GMT
^^^ Best post of the year ^^^
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 26, 2012 23:19:07 GMT
Don't take it the wrong way, but you've got more ties than most on here! It's just a bit of a kick in the balls really, as I said elsewhere, it just smarts that people have "successfully" won competitions that were just "take a photo!". Wouldn't take much for them to provide *something*, even if it's not the video thing... (let's face it, a Feeder video isn't the event it once was to all of us!) All of those comps were offered by a company that still exists. It's the same as if you've got a pre order with Game at the moment. Youre not likely to get your money back or your product in that case either. Yes, they could offer something but they don't have to. If and when I get the chance in person, I will mention it again, but there not much else I can do. What you do is up to you, but I'm not gonna let it stop me enjoying the music,mehich is still as good as ever.
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Post by Ben on Mar 27, 2012 7:08:43 GMT
Don't take it the wrong way, but you've got more ties than most on here! It's just a bit of a kick in the balls really, as I said elsewhere, it just smarts that people have "successfully" won competitions that were just "take a photo!". Wouldn't take much for them to provide *something*, even if it's not the video thing... (let's face it, a Feeder video isn't the event it once was to all of us!) All of those comps were offered by a company that still exists. It's the same as if you've got a pre order with Game at the moment. Youre not likely to get your money back or your product in that case either. Yes, they could offer something but they don't have to. If and when I get the chance in person, I will mention it again, but there not much else I can do. What you do is up to you, but I'm not gonna let it stop me enjoying the music,mehich is still as good as ever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to force people into thinking/acting in a certain way, I'm just expressing how I'm feeling with regard to this campaign.
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Post by [Ghost] on Mar 27, 2012 8:45:08 GMT
All of those comps were offered by a company that still exists. It's the same as if you've got a pre order with Game at the moment. Youre not likely to get your money back or your product in that case either. It's not the same. The band still exists. The band knew about the competition, and are aware that no prizes, or even acknowledgement, was given. There arn't many bands Feeders size that wouldn't even apologize.
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Post by bigospedros on Mar 27, 2012 9:00:36 GMT
I know this, you know this ... I've had an e-mail exchange with FeederHQ and they don't feel responsible since they didn't offer the prize!
No point talking to band members as I suspect they either won't remember what prize was offered or whether it was fulfilled, plus, they have other things to think about at the moment.
As I said, if and when I get a chance in person, I can mention it again, but I'm not holding out much hope. If we don't get anything, then so be it ... I didn't make the video for the prize, I made it for the fun of it.
ANYWAY, moving on and back on subject ... To get the mood a bitnmore positive, as I have a promo copy of the album (courtesy of a record shop in London at the weekend) I think there are some really great tracks on there ... The first 4 tracks are particularly strong as an opening salvo. I'm looking forward to hearing the extra iTunes track when that comes out ... I'm hoping to post a review the week before release, via the Anorak.
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